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Suggestion and question about tribe's informations

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Suggestion and question about tribe's informations

Post by Sleenia on Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:21 am

I noticed the new iformations for each tribe, and I wanted to share what I thought
A guide is a good idea, also to describe the atmosphere and the dragons but it should be a general guide,
there should not be rigid rules, because if a new one arrives and see that, what it can think??
one feels forced when sees that, and try to adjust it's charachter in a rigid way, when it should sounds just like a sugestion, and do not respect the original charachter's idea
So I think it's important that you may specify that this is just a suggestion, a point of ispiration, because if one have to follow perfectly these rules there will be a lot of clones, if every dragon is like that it would not make sense, like all the nightwings are black and have mind powers, same for other tribes,
at this point it would make much sense to create a bunch of dragons and let people to pick one of them xD
What happens if one have a personal charachter and sees it in a different way?
That way it looks like there is no liberty, like one is not free to use its imagination
the user is not free, and there is not a good freedom of customization
What if one sees its dragon as a god? or guard? or just a traveler, even a dragon that forge or a rouge? and there is another thing, i think that the moderator or admin title should not be automatically correlated to a god one, or liutenant, why one must be a god too just because is the king for example?? or why a "normal" user can't see its dragon in another way instead a dragon with no title?
One may think that a king must be strongest than the others, but it do not work always like that, it could be an idea, but not a rigid rule, beside the facts that one can decide how much strong is its dragon, and that it's not the strenght that make one to be a good leader (or we will fall in the stereotypes) Obvoisly one must not abuse of powers or titles in any case, that's why i'm saying rules are ok of course
But again, seeing these topics it looks like there is not much choice, and it can work as a description for a single dragon, it should be specific that it's a general guide if it is.

In short, then one creates a character his own, and each has different characteristics maybe, apart from the powers of even the appearance or size, as it should be,
I do not say no info, this is ok, it's good to follow some suggestions and ideas, to have some for deciding races and put parameters, to verify each topic that describe a character and to get the permission to not fall in the caos, but each dragon is different, as each person, and unique imagination world
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Re: Suggestion and question about tribe's informations

Post by Volcanis on Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:23 am

I perfectly understand your point of view. There're some things that I feel they need to be changed.

1. God characters shouldn't be abused. I think it was fine the way it was: only three "symbolic" Gods of creation. (Kazumi, Phantom and Shardas). I agree admins or moderators are supposed to simply administrate the site. They can't become automatically Gods or more powerful than other characters in virtue of a promotion. Administrating a site is a totally different thing from roleplaying.
2. About tribe leaders, it's something we were talking about. Tribe leaders aren't Gods anymore, but they can have similar powers. However a tribe leader isn't necessarily stronger than a normal dragon. The value of a leader can't be valued by its strenght.
3. I agree users are free to make their characters the way they would like. However the characters must be balanced. The information topics can mislead new users. It should be specified they're a simple referement.

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Re: Suggestion and question about tribe's informations

Post by Sleenia on Tue Jul 01, 2014 3:37 am

I agree with you, However i think there is nothing wrong if one is a god or sort of, or have different powers, or something similar but not a god, but it obviosly need to be always balanced, the admin, moderator as the common user may should be able to choose
This also applies to the opposite, because it's not necessary to be a god to be strong, as a god should not be invincible or a normal dragon weak
and nobody is invulnerable at all, to me, from my point of view, also gods can bleed maybe
The fact that one is a moderator or admin is still a different thing
and "commons users/dragons" should not feel degraded of course, there is no reason for that
And i believe the fact that everyone have a different point of view can just improve it and give more chance to create interesting stories,
as in the past dragons were seen in a bad mode, now it's different, there is who like the idea of the classic dragon, or who like the idea of a dragon rider, or a good peaceful dragon
same for gods, in the past gods was considered immortal and invulnerable, but for someone is not like this, these are just different opinions, as same for the werewolf or the vampire, there is someone who still think the garlic can keep them away and there is who like another idea
we can share our differents ideas and each one have an orgiinal charachter, we can just only enrich each other if it is make well

but obviously as I said, it's good there are some rules to don't fall in the caos, just not so rigid, and each one, besides the moderator, should take care of its actions, to keep things works well
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Re: Suggestion and question about tribe's informations

Post by Celestia on Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:26 am

Oh geez where to begin. This is not what I thought I would occupy my morning with. Alright lets start with the admin = god thing. There are three popular methods of thinking. First is that staff members are not to interfere with IC involvement at all. Staff members are there to settle disputes such as fights and arguments as well as other OOC matters and to make and change rules. My personal view on this is its stupid. I've seen too many site driven into the ground because of this. Of course these sites were very competitive back when I use to do a lot of competitive RP. In a virtually 0 competition site like this it would work fine. However thats not how this site was set up and changing that would be too much on the plate right now. The current topic is the tribes and things being redone in that regard. We can not move onto anything else that big until this matter has settled down.

The second method of thinking is that Admins or staff would have greater IC power than the other members so that they may keep the peace in case some crazy person tries to take over the world and does a good job at it. This site is set up more in likeness to this.

The third method of thinking is much like the first except there is staff involvement in IC affairs but instead of having an IC involvement to settle it they just say nope you can't do that and thats that.

As for the ridgid tribes they are ridgid. This site does not have as much creative freedom as some other sites and the idea that someone is the same because they have similar abilities is silly from my perspective. Lets look at real life for a sec. Humans all look generally the same. We all have the same body shape the range of skin tones does not very large at all. And all humans most humans stay within a certain range of height. However still each person is unique but what they wear how they speak their personality the combination of face shape hair color size body shape ect. We have here five tribes all with unique abilities and one can mix those abilities up by being a mut like myself. Just under half SkyWing and NightWing with a small trace of FireWing in there. You still get to mess around with your shape your face your horns your appearance. Your personality is going to be unique from everyone else. There are a million things you can still mess with. Most sites do not have total freedom in creativity though I do know a couple active one that and I'd be happy to give them to you if you want. The color of your dragon though I believe should be more of a suggestion and I think it is. I haven't seen anyone called out for having the wrong scale color in the wrong tribe.

Why do you even care if the staff are stronger. This is not a competitive site such things shouldn't matter. The story is what should matter. In my up coming fight with Kokoro I'm hoping I'll lose more than win just because of all the crazy interesting plot opportunities it will open.

With with all these crazy god interpretations. Tribe leaders are gods they are just gods that stick with their tribe and tribe leaders are stronger than the normal dragon. Thats how the leadership system works. The stronger lead. I'm about to fight Kokoro for the position of SkyWing Queen Volcanis you have in your character a plot to eventually challenge ShadowFire and and Nightflare or fire forgot the name plans on over throwing gimnin I can't spell and again I say that stuff is fine but you shouldn't stick to much weight on it. The goal here is to RP and have fun not who is stronger. But hey if you want it to be that I can add combat rules but I guarantee you you will hate it. As a person who has been RPing for a long time I can tell you all the horrors of competitive RP.

I do have a bone to pick with tribal leaders automatically becoming staff and therefore gods. This is just wrong on so many levels and needs to be changed.

Now obviously a god can be killed but not by just a few dragons. Though one dragon can do it if you figure out their weakness. Like for me I'm not as strong during the day and on the new moon I'm no different from a regular dragon if not weaker, but you are not going to beat me at night no way unless its a new moon.

As for the human element and rider stuff I'm all for this. Those who don't like it can avoid it and those who do like it can RP with it. I was actually introducing a human element into the SkyWing information.

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Gala: UNLEASH THE FURY OF THE NIGHT!
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[01:31:17] XaJjang : 90% of this site's "Metagaming" or "Powerplaying" is the opposite.
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Re: Suggestion and question about tribe's informations

Post by Sleenia on Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:37 am

you got me wrong, and din't undertend what I mean, really
It would be not competitive, just different and more open, also I had a lot of experience, and even in forum where the admins where not the leader, for example, but this was not a problem for the moderator as for the common member, and all was balanced
and the fact of the race thing, again you didn't got my point, and we are almost saying the same thing
by saying  "half SkyWing and NightWing with a small trace of FireWing in there" it's the same as i say that a eartwing dragon can breathe fire too, and this should be specificated in the topic, it's just that simple
like if one want to create a charachter to enter in the nightwing tribe, maybe he/she would not have mind reading powers, but something different
look at me, I have this charachter with a particular "power", but it's not because I want to be tronger than someone else
And, it's not true that the stronger is the leader ^^ it's not true in the roleplay and ...as you said, look at the real life
This would not take away the god position, just will be more easy to indentify moderators and dragon gods
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Re: Suggestion and question about tribe's informations

Post by Kazumi on Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:50 am

Well, I honestly have no idea why the leaders are dragon gods. Ask Phantom.

Also, the whole reason why we made seperate accounts is because we didn't have as much posting oppurtunities (sorry if I spelled that wrong) as dragon gods. But Phantom always posts as Phantom anyway for unknown reasons. Razz

As for the leaders being chatbox mods, you'll have to ask Phan. I had nothing to do with that.

Sleenia I don't really understand your suggestion. Just because they're in a Tribe doean't mean that they have to have that Tribe's powers. For example Avian. He's a FireWing yet he isn't resistant to fire.

Every dragon is allowed to have its own unique power that no one else has.

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Re: Suggestion and question about tribe's informations

Post by Sleenia on Tue Jul 01, 2014 9:57 am

Sleenia I don't really understand your suggestion. Just because they're in a Tribe doean't mean that they have to have that Tribe's powers. For example Avian. He's a FireWing yet he isn't resistant to fire.
exatly, but this is not speciefied that it's just a "suggestion"? a guide? a base idea of it?
if I come here and see this, I think my dragon MUST be like this or it would be not approved ^^'

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Re: Suggestion and question about tribe's informations

Post by Volcanis on Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:01 am

About the Dragon God = administrator thing. Let me to explain better my idea

The forum has been created with the intent to have administrators as Dragon Gods. It was fine at the start, but now there're more users coming and they have their own ideas and style of roleplaying. So we need to have a more open-mind and understand how to make a large user base happy.

My idea. Simply remove from the user legend:
Dragon Gods (Administrators)
The Chosen Ones (Moderators)

And replace them with
Administrators
Moderators.

Administrating and roleplaying are two totally different things.
I believe admins should simply be the admins and moderators simply be the moderators. However the actual admins (Phantom, Kazumi, Shardas and Astral) can still use their Gods characters.
My idea wants to open new horizons and everything remains intact. Nothing changes for characters, territories, stories, tribes. The goal is to let active and new users to be more comfortable to create their characters without having scare of "gerarchies" that may discourage them from roleplaying. Not just about the god/admin thing, but also about powers and appareance.

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Re: Suggestion and question about tribe's informations

Post by Celestia on Tue Jul 01, 2014 10:22 am

Ok I see what you are saying now. I suppose for a site like this such a notification would be justifiable.

As for the stronger leader thing you need to remember that modern days stuff is much different then how leadership worked in the past. In the past with small tribes and the such the leader was defined as the strongest. The whole society that is create here on this site is militarist. I don't see any bread making dragons (HTTYD reference ^.^) no I see trackers and guardians and weapon makers. How is a leader chosen here. It is not by diplomacy but by challenging the current leader and defeating them in combat. Think of a lion pride or a wolf pack. They system here is just as primal. In the wild its the strong that survive and those survival genes are passed down to the younger generation. In the same way the tribes here are led by the strong. And strong can be the most cunning, swift, or physically strong.

Now onto Volcanis
Volcanis wrote:
The forum has been created with the intent to have administrators as Dragon Gods. It was fine at the start, but now there're more users coming and they have their own ideas and style of roleplaying. So we need to have a more open-mind and understand how to make a large user base happy.

I'm sorry but thats not how it works in most cases. A site can't have everything. The uniqueness of a site come from what if has to offer differently from other sites. If you join a site and you don't like how its run then you join a different site. Never will all the masses be pleased the the system that we have no is proven to work fine. I mean this site has virtually no advertising yet as far has RP sites are concerned this place is very active. Its seriously a miracle this site has gotten to where it has.

Now the admins can get together and decided weather they want to listen to these new ideas. I'm going to say right now I am against removing the god aspect of staff members. However there are a few changes I would like to see.

First off those that become tribal leaders do not automatically become mods and gods. This is very important to the sites health.

Less important would be mods being semi gods. The reasoning behind this isn't too important but its and idea I would like to bring forward. What other ideas do you members have which will be put into the staff discussion.

I'm turning this into less of a Discussion topic and more of a suggestion topic.

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[15:53:21] Apolis : Yes, semi gods shall be treated with the uttermost respect of course!
Gala: UNLEASH THE FURY OF THE NIGHT!
[00:33:27] Abyss : Happy coming outta yer mum day~
[01:31:17] XaJjang : 90% of this site's "Metagaming" or "Powerplaying" is the opposite.
[01:31:26] XaJjang : It's jsut really badly worded posted, or jsut bad posts in general.
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Re: Suggestion and question about tribe's informations

Post by Volcanis on Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:06 am

I believe it's needed to separate the admin and god role. They're two separate things. A lot of users may also don't like the current setup.

Example: I'm a new user that knows only admins can be Gods. So what I'm going to think.

New user: "Why admins/moderators can have God characters while normal users can't? So my character will be weak and useless because the creators of the site have all the super-powers only for themselves."

I understand the admins aren't tyrannical Gods and they would never abuse of their God state. Gods are also meant to be part of Pyyria's past. The site is also 0 competitive and our target is to have a lot of fun. However how do you explain this to new users? The new user will easily misunderstand the whole thing and tell. "Ok, the admins/moderators have all the cool powers for themselves and they can crush me. So there's no point to join a site where the admins have so unfair methods."

Don't forget that the majority of the users like to have very powerful characters. That's obvious. So they should be free to have gods-related powers like the admins/moderators. Balance is of course needed.

Also, remember that roleplaying and administrating are two different things. So what's the point to have both of them? Nothing. Users will wrongly think that the admins largely abuse their powers.

Remember that my idea won't change anything for the site. The Gods will still be there and the roleplaying stuff will remains intact. So why are you disaggreing about separating the two roles? You won't lose your Goddess character and you're still an admin.

At the end I'm suggesting to have a legend of administrators and moderators instead of Gods and Choosen Ones.. For example Astral is an admin, but in the legend she isn't a God. However her character is a God. The two things are separated and for the user is more clear that Gods are simply related to the story of Pyyria and they have nothing to with the site's administration.

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Re: Suggestion and question about tribe's informations

Post by Celestia on Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:26 am

Go back and re read the three methods of administration I talked about earlier.

Are there any other suggestions?

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Quotes:
[15:53:21] Apolis : Yes, semi gods shall be treated with the uttermost respect of course!
Gala: UNLEASH THE FURY OF THE NIGHT!
[00:33:27] Abyss : Happy coming outta yer mum day~
[01:31:17] XaJjang : 90% of this site's "Metagaming" or "Powerplaying" is the opposite.
[01:31:26] XaJjang : It's jsut really badly worded posted, or jsut bad posts in general.
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Re: Suggestion and question about tribe's informations

Post by Volcanis on Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:04 pm

I have read all three methods of thinking.

However I'm trying to say a different thing. I'm suggesting to simply have administrators and moderators. The Gods are still there, but they aren't related to the site's administration anymore. So Astral (example) can be an admin, and still have her Goddess character. Have you understood my point? For the site it won't change anything, no matter which method of thinking we may use.

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Re: Suggestion and question about tribe's informations

Post by Sleenia on Tue Jul 01, 2014 12:25 pm

no, Astral ^^  it's not always like that that a leadership works, and if you are going to see the wolves, they are a family, and the leaders are the wisest and the couple that have more chance to have puppies and save the future generation, and so the omega role is underrated, because it's very important and help th group to be stronger

anyway a leader, also in the past, and I mean a true good leader, is the wise one, the one who can take a good decision and people decide to follow it, there is the trong leader too, i'm not saying you are not saying a truth, but there are also others way, and there were in the past too
An important thing to keep in mind is that one is the leader, and another is tyrant (to be more sintetic, i say it in general)
other example is Gandhi, not so ancient but not too modern too, and there were many like this
or the indian of america, they listened to the suggestion of and old wise chief/leader, and of course they were doing fight and tests of courage, but it was obvious to survival, to prepare the youngest to the world they were facing, all do what they can and give the best, but among them was consolidating a strong relationship of respect,
and i'm not saying there is not respect here ^^ please don't take this in the wrong way because i don't think and i'm not saying that

Astral wrote:
you join a site and you don't like how its run then you join a different site.
Why are you sating something like that? this is not a fight or a critic to underrated your works guys, it's just a topic where we could just talk and think about new things and share our ideas and opinion, taking and giving advices, what's wrong with that?


I'm going to say right now I am against removing the god aspect of staff members. However there are a few changes I would like to see.

Never said that, who is a god do not have to lost its title! I'm just saying, as volcanis did too
that there can be just separated things, like a common dragon can be a good moderator, but this do not mean that a moderator can't be a god too, I say it again: never thought to remove the god title from the users and didn't suggested it
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Re: Suggestion and question about tribe's informations

Post by Celestia on Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:39 pm

Leader thing I'm debating what makes a good leader I'm just saying how it works here regardless if its effective or not.

First quote that wasn't directed to any of you personally it was a generalized quote of how things work.

Second quote is just a miscomunication. I understand what you guys are saying even if I'm not communicating very well that I understand.

Now can we get back to suggestions rather than discussing misunderstandings.

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Quotes:
[15:53:21] Apolis : Yes, semi gods shall be treated with the uttermost respect of course!
Gala: UNLEASH THE FURY OF THE NIGHT!
[00:33:27] Abyss : Happy coming outta yer mum day~
[01:31:17] XaJjang : 90% of this site's "Metagaming" or "Powerplaying" is the opposite.
[01:31:26] XaJjang : It's jsut really badly worded posted, or jsut bad posts in general.
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Re: Suggestion and question about tribe's informations

Post by Sleenia on Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:48 pm

yes Astral don't be upset :O
and we were talking triying to explaing each other, it should be a good thing
anyway besides the god-moderator thing, which I agree roleplay and moderating are just different thing (and this do not means that one cannot be both)
I already said that there should be, in my opinion, a description that simply says that the references at the tribe's type works as suggestion, that one is not forced to respect perfeclty these parameters

ps: I didn't percieved that quote as something personal against me
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Re: Suggestion and question about tribe's informations

Post by Volcanis on Tue Jul 01, 2014 2:26 pm

Ok, to do a little summary. We have two suggestions.

1. Description of the tribes are restrictive. Sleenia's suggestion is there should be a warning that say the descriptions are only a referement.

2. My idea is to remove from the user legend:
Dragon Gods (Administrators)
The Chosen Ones (Moderators)

And replace them with
Administrators
Moderators.

Basically an admin/moderator shouldn't be "necessarily" God. That's unfair towards "normal" users thay may fit the role of God. Being the admin of a forum doesn't give you the right to be a God. Administration and roleplaying are two totally different things. However there could be just two different titles, and one can have both or just one of them.

So I'd like to know what will be the answer from the staff and if they agree about these two suggestions. Perhaps we could do a pool and see what the users vote.

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Re: Suggestion and question about tribe's informations

Post by Sleenia on Tue Jul 01, 2014 11:50 pm

so...any thoughts?
what about write that the tribes descriptions are a guide and a user is not forced to fit perfectly these conditions? (power, appearance etc)
and what about to make new titles? so a user can eventually be a moderator even if not a god
as a god can be just a god
(exception for who is both naturally ^^)
(also trake3rs and guardias by this point of view should have a title like the moderators xD but it's not like this because, of course, a dragon rank and a user duty are different things)
This will not bring any caos, this will help the site to grow up and it's more clear to everyone every role

and...guys please talk, it's good to talk and ear about others suggestions right? one should not be afraid to talk and we are just arguing ^^ so please comment, say what you all think, I don't see it as a bad thing ^^
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