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FireWing Queen is being a tyrant?

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FireWing Queen is being a tyrant?

Post by Atlantis on Wed Feb 11, 2015 5:55 pm

Just opening this topic to discuss about the FireWings leadership.

I feel her leadership isn't being good. When people tend to disobey to the leader, it means the leader is a bad one.

I believe Kenina is a tyrant, considering also she ignores the majority of FireWings are cocky and unpredictable by nature. She can't just punish or imprison them.

What are your opinion on this? I'd like this site won't take the tyrantship direction. Leaders aren't supposed to be tyrants.

While it is true the tribe's leader word is "law", we aren't in a military accademy where the boss-character cruelly commands and force others to follow orders, Otherwise they're punished.

There're feelings involved when people roleplay characters, and they put their personalities inside the characters. I believe this cannot be ignored.

I hope other leaders will not take Kenina's direction. I feel what's happening would compromise the friendly and peaceful atmopshere. Most of all, the tyrantship system only suffucates characters personalities.

This is of course only my opinion. What do you think about this?



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Re: FireWing Queen is being a tyrant?

Post by Oculus on Wed Feb 11, 2015 6:15 pm

You disobeyed your leader in the midst of a high risk situation. Imprisonment is merciful, not tyrannical.

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Re: FireWing Queen is being a tyrant?

Post by Atlantis on Wed Feb 11, 2015 6:23 pm

Oculus wrote:You disobeyed your leader in the midst of a high risk situation.  Imprisonment is merciful, not tyrannical.

In this case, imprisonment is being tyrannical. Volcanis has clearly said that Kenina's decisions were being not good because this would risk to kill Ausurath and terrorize him. Volcanis has also explained the political issues because Gemini will get angry.

On my perspective, it is clearly tyrantship that Kenina isn't understanding. Of course the tyrant will always claim is doing good for the tribe, while it isn't always true. I feel Kenina's ideals have a twisted kind of corruption.

This is my interpretation of the situation.

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Re: FireWing Queen is being a tyrant?

Post by Lao on Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:30 pm

Its bound to fall apart or backfire, Time kills everything.

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Re: FireWing Queen is being a tyrant?

Post by Atlantis on Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:27 pm

Lao wrote:Its bound to fall apart or backfire, Time kills everything.  

When a tribe's leader is a bad one, yes, time will kill everything.

I'm also of the idea that a good leader is only good when accepted by everyone.

This doesn't necessarily make the tribes all equal. There're ways of ruling that can be different.

When many characters tend to disobey leaders, the leader is a bad one. Not the disobedient. So generally the fault needs to be found in the tribe's leader, not in tribe members.

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Re: FireWing Queen is being a tyrant?

Post by Oculus on Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:35 pm

Let me rephrase what you said, just to give you a different perspective. Kenina's decision to pursue this rare opportunity to retrieve AuSurath for their ally, is bad because it will scare the hatchling, so it'd be better to let them escape? Letting the 'kidnapper' of Gemini's adopted son leave without pursuit wouldn't anger Gemini, but making Au scared in retrieving him would anger her? Volcanis stopped Kenina from rescuing the 'kidnapped' hatchling, letting Wisp get away, so imprisoning him is wrong?

Just throwing a different perspective. Can't be single minded to see the entire situation.

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Re: FireWing Queen is being a tyrant?

Post by Aera on Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:06 pm

Ocu, I said I'd be waiting at an island though. All Gemini has to do is come to get Au, who is apparently gonna die anyway ((*tear tear*)) I think that Keninas not tyrannical, she just seems more harsh. But leaders can be harsh. Hideki Tojo, Stalin, most of any Emporers or Shoguns ever.... they were sort of bad tempered.

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Re: FireWing Queen is being a tyrant?

Post by Iluzoran on Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:12 pm

Okay. One thing. Its just rp. If it was her being rude it being actual members or like abusing her admin powers then I think it would be a problem. Second. Firewings are hot headed, rude, quick to act and feisty. If they have a carefree, careless leader that doesn't punish them Firewings will be even disobedient then they already are. A tribe needs stability and if the leader doesn't take control then whats a tribe without a leader.
I know you say that its making her a tyrant to take Volcanis and the other character who's name I can't remember into the cells. Haven't you ever seen conflicts and such where they have to send some people away to fights don't start. Volcanis is the hot headed giant we know and honestly we know he is gonna start a fight to Kenina in the rp prevented it. I have now spoken what I think is right. Carry on.

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Re: FireWing Queen is being a tyrant?

Post by Erinyes on Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:23 am

Err guys, a leader, not a tyrant, guides its people, listen to them, try to find the better way to make its people feel good and fight with them

I was surprised by the reaction because i thought that kenina would not like to push its member but rather prefer to find a way to solve the problem

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Re: FireWing Queen is being a tyrant?

Post by Atlantis on Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:38 am

Oculus wrote:Let me rephrase what you said, just to give you a different perspective.  Kenina's decision to pursue this rare opportunity to retrieve AuSurath for their ally, is bad because it will scare the hatchling, so it'd be better to let them escape?  Letting the 'kidnapper' of Gemini's adopted son leave without pursuit wouldn't anger Gemini, but making Au scared in retrieving him would anger her?  Volcanis stopped Kenina from rescuing the 'kidnapped' hatchling, letting Wisp get away, so imprisoning him is wrong?

Just throwing a different perspective.  Can't be single minded to see the entire situation.

Volcanis has never said "don't chase the IceWings". What he has said, trying to retrieve the hatcling by force like that, would only terrorize him or risk to kill it. Volcanis was actually suggesting to go after the IceWings.

Besides that, another problem is that Kenina has just talked about insurdination, but completely ignoring opinions or not trying to lessen the tension without appearing as a true tyrant. Kenina was exactly acting like a tyrant would do.

Lucia wrote:Second. Firewings are hot headed, rude, quick to act and feisty. If they have a carefree, careless leader that doesn't punish them Firewings will be even disobedient then they already are. A tribe needs stability and if the leader doesn't take control then whats a tribe without a leader.

So the way to control the FireWings is to have a cruel leader that bullies others into obedience, like a tyrant would do. It is still tyrantship. A carefree leader doesn't mean is naive. It'll need to see how to play around the hot Firewings personalities. I believe it is actually possible.

Lucia wrote:I know you say that its making her a tyrant to take Volcanis and the other character who's name I can't remember into the cells. Haven't you ever seen conflicts and such where they have to send some people away to fights don't start. Volcanis is the hot headed giant we know and honestly we know he is gonna start a fight to Kenina in the rp prevented it. I have now spoken what I think is right. Carry on.

Still thinking about Volcanis reaction. It is a very hard situation, since Volcanis would be forced to fight a semi-god. Need to think about it.

Wisp wrote:I think that Keninas not tyrannical, she just seems more harsh. But leaders can be harsh. Hideki Tojo, Stalin, most of any Emporers or Shoguns ever.... they were sort of bad tempered

All those leaders have indeed done crimes against humanity, so they're much worse than tyrannical. You're indeed supporting my point that Kenina is a tyrant leader.

Kenina wrote:Lets say for a second that people decided I was a tyrant. Am I to believe this topic was but a poll to debate how morally right or wrong I was. I find it hard to believe that would be your only motive.

Absolutely not. This topic is only a discussion towards the FireWings leadership.

Now, the fact Kenina can be a bad leader, I'm not debating you being morally wrong or right. I know your interest is to give the best leader for the FireWings. The point is: can this leadership actually work for the FireWings?

Anyway, it is the decision to order imprisonment I believe it is the very bad one. Imprisoning characters would cause too many contrasts.

ANyway, It can be acceptable that a tribe can be lead by a tyrant, because we're roleplaying afterall and we need villains. Having a villain can open different plots. Hopefully this leadership will not turn into a slaughterhouse, because I'm afraid it is the direction it would take.

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Re: FireWing Queen is being a tyrant?

Post by Aera on Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:39 am

You're speaking as if tyrants are a bad thing. Julius Caesar was a tyrant, but he was loved, by his people until he was assassinated by one jealous of his power. I love you Atlas, but the judgement is a bit harsh for having said she was going to lock somebody up only once.

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Re: FireWing Queen is being a tyrant?

Post by Erinyes on Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:49 am

guys, sorry but, do you really know the difference and the meaning of leader - bad/good king/queen and tyrant?
but i just wanted to say that i dind't expected the queen/leader to command without listening to the sincere words of Erinyes that's all, this is not good xD you can say that she is severe and can react like this yeah, but don't tell me that it's a good behaviour Razz

and for the rest, personally, to me it looks like "if you do not act like i want you to, you are banished or locked and it's a personal thing now" D: I mean...really???

anyway..just because someone is from a tribe it doesnt mean that it does have the same behaviour, as for the firewing, there hot heads and not, same for all the tribes, a free and unique dragons ha its personality and temperament don't you agree? otherway write a description would be absurd, because everyone are the same because of the tribe...? XD what?! XD

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Re: FireWing Queen is being a tyrant?

Post by Atlantis on Thu Feb 12, 2015 7:06 am

Wisp wrote:You're speaking as if tyrants are a bad thing. Julius Caesar was a tyrant, but he was loved, by his people until he was assassinated by one jealous of his power. I love you Atlas, but the judgement is a bit harsh for having said she was going to lock somebody up only once.

I thank you for love's declaration Razz

Generally, tyrants are bad. Julius Caesar was a controversial and complex person. He was revered, but also hated for his cruelty. He wasn't certainly a good person, considering he's guilty of terrible crimes.

Anyway, a leadership that is based on mere obedience is always a fail because it turns to destroy the life, dignity, and freedom of others. It is clear Kenina is taking this direction.

Wisp, you're completely ignoring the points of Volcanis and Erinyes (which Wisp the character has explained to the FireWings!), but you'ree defending outright Kenina. She was a tyrant with her behaviour, with no doubts.

However, as I have said, it can be fine the FireWings can become a tribe of villains. Kenina is planning to conquer the world, afterall, so she's a villain. I'm afraid with time this will just fall apart.

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Re: FireWing Queen is being a tyrant?

Post by Erinyes on Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:03 pm

what? just because there is a "military system" it doesn't allow you to have a rigid/aggressive behaviour, exception if it's the charachter personality, I don't know why you always be upset when someone do not write what you want! Erin reaction it's natural seeying this chaos, Kenina simply shut down its own members or bring them to jail?! this is not what i call good leader or queen, and anyway I see the problem it's with you, you get mad at everything if it's not "your way" military system? PLEASE this is a roleplay we should just write and relax and enjoy it, not do a war between us!!! And anyway there was a poll about leaders (people follow the leader and the leader do not force them) or kingdom system, but i see...that almost everyone ignored this rule! I didn't said anything but if this is the way you want to carry on the website, let me say that you are making people feel sick

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Re: FireWing Queen is being a tyrant?

Post by Erinyes on Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:41 pm

first, there were more people that agreed with the leader idea, and the staff approoved it
but this is the less important thing
I never complained and I adapted myself, saying that a tribe could choose what to do, but not that way, crashing the opinions of others :/
I may do not speak for people, but neither you are, who you think you are? because of the rank we can't have a normal debate? you are the one right and i'm all wrong?

the last thing i want its to have a fight-chat" with you

then, my comment in erinyes reaction have its meaning, first it was just a surprise for me, not complaining, but looking at this closer and thinking about this conversation
I was surprised as erin was, and i didn't expect the queen to just "put her in jail" woah thank you, really nice xD at least you could have told me if you didn't liked the erin or volc reaction in person, i know you have always something to say abou me or atlas like if we are making a team againt everyone, let me say that it's not like that.

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Re: FireWing Queen is being a tyrant?

Post by Erinyes on Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:03 pm

allright then, but hey about the first thing, it's a feeling i do have, if you do not let me know
i hope things like this will not happen again, i mean, we can always talk about it out of the RP and try to help each other to understand others point of view,
and in rp don't take it personal, but ..can you just be a little more ... gentle as queen? XD Razz

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Re: FireWing Queen is being a tyrant?

Post by Erinyes on Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:41 pm

yeah, what about she is surprised by the erin reaction in a good way? trying to save the situation and touched by this? something in her mind can start to change

after all, she do love volc and erin just expressed her opinion, banish/punish or close them in prison it's a bit overwhelm

i do like the idea of being friend kenina and erin

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Re: FireWing Queen is being a tyrant?

Post by Celestia on Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:48 pm

I stand by the decision I made but like I said earlier it just till Kenina can come back and have a chat with you. Maybe it could begin there. I mean if you want to we could make that topic right now.

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Re: FireWing Queen is being a tyrant?

Post by Erinyes on Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:08 pm

for come back what do you mean? change a bit his ideas about what to do with them? or take them in prison? (erin would rather fly away XD)
I think that also volc can influence her, she would no feel comfortable to punish her loved one ? I think she may have the time to reconsider its decisions, because she rushed at this conclusion ^^'

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Re: FireWing Queen is being a tyrant?

Post by Celestia on Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:10 pm

I would not suggest resisting arrest that makes it even worse. Also Volc isn't going to prison hes going to get locked in his room Razz

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Re: FireWing Queen is being a tyrant?

Post by Arkhor on Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:17 pm

^ Not that the room will get destroyed or anything XD

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Re: FireWing Queen is being a tyrant?

Post by Erinyes on Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:21 pm

yeah but I thought that because of everything is happening so fast, she can reconsider it, also later too
vold is not a kid xD
(lol erin takes a redbull and flee*

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Re: FireWing Queen is being a tyrant?

Post by AuSurath on Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:27 pm

Since this post is late, I'll just sum everything up.  Firstly, why the heck would Kenina need to warn you about the consequences of your actions?  Last time I checked, yelling at YOUR LEADER in front of their allies AND disobeying them does not make the leader of said tribe give you cookies.  Seriously, what did you expect?  Her title IS Queen, not President.  The Queen's decree is law, and you broke a law, and are now being sent to prison.  How is that shocking?  You publicly break a law, and embarrass the queen in front of their new found allies.  Swift punishment is the only obvious response to save any face of the ordeal.

Secondly, why would she warn you ooc that you are gonna be punished for breaking a law?   I do believe this is call an RP site, not a story site.  If you want to write a collaborative story, go pm someone and work on it there, not on the forums where people rp.

Thirdly, I still see no reason why at all Atlantis would be posting something like this.  No reason at all.  He's a SW, so I don't see the connection to how Kenina's actions for FW affect him, unless he had ulterior motives.

As for Kenina's response, I supported her in that reaction, I actually laughed as she took my advice.  I'll tell you the same thing I told her.  Stop being a whiny hatchling, and go put your big girl pants on.  Leaders are not supposed to be whiny hatchlings at everyone disobeying them, they take charge and control the situation.  

Now, the only thing I see left for this topic is to burn it as if it never existed.  But really, if you have an issue of Kenina's post, come whine to me, not her.  I suggested it.  I warn you though, I WILL humiliate stupidity and immaturity, which is the founding of this topic.  Please, feel free to PM me on this account or on Oculus's account.
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Re: FireWing Queen is being a tyrant?

Post by Frostflare on Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:02 pm

I do quiet agree the she is being a tyrant. The first thing she wanted to do was slay the Icewings and steal their territory. The thing is, what would firewings do with a freezing territory? Freeze to death? Sounds about right. In no way, shape, or form that idea, or even thought would not have been helpful to the firewings. I do quiet agree. She is a Tyrant.

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Re: FireWing Queen is being a tyrant?

Post by Erinyes on Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:36 am

yelling at YOUR LEADER in front of their allies AND disobeying them does not make the leader of said tribe give you cookies

Are you kidding? you want to be punished? a cub who just was shoked by the news?! it's a mature reaction to let him cool down, and then have a serious talk
what's wrong with you ?!

a leader or a queen are not always the kind of people who rip off your head with no problem, there are good leaders and queen/king and keep this in mind, good doesn't mean stupid! but you think the bad way is the only one uh? wow..congrats

my char (erin) wasn't breaking any law, just expressed her thoughts instead of sitting down and shut up or speack about this behind kenina

volc have its personality and knowing him by description and other roleplays this is the right reaction

Stop being a whiny hatchling, and go put your big girl pants on.
I WILL humiliate stupidity and immaturity

you are really confused about immaturity, aggressity, complain etc, now, if there is a good admin or moderator, would warm you for your harsh words and behaviour

you told her? so you are pushing and convincing her to lock or punish etc the members of her tribe/family?! wow very nice, you all are doing good!

ausurath, the way you are talking is a "bit" arrogant, i do not support the bully the arrogant the selfish the one who think that the bad way is the right way so don't dare to tell me that i'm whiny or my char are becauase, sadly for you, mentally closed, it's all but not a whiny the reaction of my char, I see you have much to learn from life, what ptoblem do you have? how old are you? how the heck is possible that you get ALL wrong? can't understand it? sorry for ya,
but you are the one who look immature and you are complaining (or whining since it seem like you like this word) about other's post and reactions. Also you are not mature enought to finally reply at a rpg and caus everyone to wait for you, I will no spend more time talking to you if you will insult me again, even if you are smart and do not use bad words it's still pretty clear how you are facing me

i't enough, i'm tired of this, if there will not change anything i will leave forever this time, you have no right to talk to me like that and as others said it's just a rpg you should enojoy it and relax, not stand up on the others, giving orders or deriding
you don't even know me , and I didn't pretend to know you and never thouht about to attack you f "something was not written like you wanted to

I should have just ignored your comment

and as I said, by menacing to insult and humiliate you must be warned!

// sorry frostflare i didn't ignore your post

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Re: FireWing Queen is being a tyrant?

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