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New tribe leader system - Female/Male Leaders and Advisors. Gods shouldn't abuse their power.

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New tribe leader system - Female/Male Leaders and Advisors. Gods shouldn't abuse their power.

Post by Atlantis on Fri Aug 01, 2014 7:17 am

The actual tribe system is similar to a militar one, where the tribes look to be "armies". We have:

Tribe leader - the commander
Lieutenant - second in command

The other ranks are generally the "militar units".
...

I think this kind of system is outdated. We have several users that they have characters with their unique personalities. So the tribe leader can't command anymore because it would be a tyrant. We have kingdoms that can't be administrated with the power only in the hands of one person. It looks to be a dictatorship system and the majority of people will be certainly upsed by that.

I think the tribe leader system can be improved with the following changes.

1. We have male and female for every tribe. So the leadership isn't anymore in the hand of one dragon, but two dragons. There's a male exponent and a female exponent.

2. We don't have a Liutenant anymore. The leaders will be supported by several Advisors. There's no limit of Advisors a tribe can have. Advisors have the important role to support the leaders, listening tribe members and understand the needs of the tribe.

To do a example. The SeaWing could have
1. Korramyr - Male Leader
2. ShiningWater - Female Leader
3. Atlantis - Advisor
4. Other advisor
5. Other advisor
...

A more interested project would be to split the kingdoms in feuds. There're Duke/Dukess that rule over a territory and they support the leaders. However this kind of project is very complicated to do for now. So we have simply Advisors to make it easier and the userbase will understand better their role. Advisors will make the life certainly easier to tribe leaders.

Also, I suggest to remove the semi-god state of tribe leaders. I think it's very important that tribe leaders can be challenged (or replaced) for the throne. This will give equality to all the dragons and prevent a leader to have a role of tyrant. However challenging a tribe leader isn't something that can be done carefree. There must be good reasons behind that.

For example, Volcanis can challenge ShadowFire and try to conquer the throne. However, the other FireWings would prefer to have ShadowFire as their leader. So Volcanis can't actually challenge the leader because he isn't supported by tribe members.

Another example: Atlantis can challenge Korramyr for the throne. They could be both two good male leaders and the SeaWings will split into two sides. So a fight will decide who is the new ruler. However Atlantis would never challenge Korramyr because he knows Korramyr is a good leader.

Third example: The majority of Advisors and tribe members agree a tribe leader needs to be changed. So the actual tribe leader will simply step down and a new one will be choosen.

To all tribe leaders: don't be scared to lose your "God" powers. If you're really a good and wise leader, you won't lose your rank because your character fits the role very well. A tribe leader should be choosen for the ability to listen and take care of tribe members, not for the strenght. As I have said at the start of this topic, the military system can't really work. There're emotions and feelings involved during a roleplay. People need to openly manifest the personalities of their characters without the fear that a tribe leader can punish the character because the leader has god powers.

Also, Dragon Gods should simply be creators. I have seen they can influence the events in Pyyria and take decision for others.

I suggest: Gods characters should be exclusively used to give suggestions. Or else Gods look as dictactors if they can do whatever they want, abusing their God-state.

I'm not accusing anyone. I know nobody is using its character to act as a tyrant. You're all very awesome people and you'll always do your best. I'm simply saying the actual system looks to be dictatorial, though you don't have the intention to be dictactors. We need more equality in the forum.


Last edited by Atlantis on Mon Aug 04, 2014 4:27 pm; edited 5 times in total

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Re: New tribe leader system - Female/Male Leaders and Advisors. Gods shouldn't abuse their power.

Post by Guest on Fri Aug 01, 2014 7:23 am

Um, Atlantis, EarthWings only have males and IceWings only have females ONO

Also, It's Duchess, not Dukess Razz

And are you saying that tribe leaders shouldn't be semi gods anymore and just be regular people?

Another thing. When fighting for alpha rank in wolves, the challenger can be denied the challenge when the alpha ignores them, meaning that they have not recognized that challenger yet. The alpha can put the wolf in its place by growling at it, but refusing to engage battle. I feel like this would be a good way so that people don't go challenging all over the place.

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Re: New tribe leader system - Female/Male Leaders and Advisors. Gods shouldn't abuse their power.

Post by Atlantis on Fri Aug 01, 2014 7:35 am

Trinyah wrote:Um, Atlantis, EarthWings only have males and IceWings only have female

I know Razz That's kinda odd.
Trinyah wrote:
And are you saying that tribe leaders shouldn't be semi gods anymore and just be regular people?

Another thing. When fighting for alpha rank in wolves, the challenger can be denied the challenge when the alpha ignores them, meaning that they have not recognized that challenger yet. The alpha can put the wolf in its place by growling at it, but refusing to engage battle. I feel like this would be a good way so that people don't go challenging all over the place.

Yes, this is another idea. A challenge for the throne can't be done so easily. There must be good reasons behind.

I think tribe leaders should lose their God powers. I know nobody is abusing powers, but there isn't equality in the forum.

For example Volcanis can't freely flirt with females because Gemini would arrive and punish him with her god powers Razz So the personality of my character is suffocated.

I know Phantom doesn't have that intention.  It's Gemini personality that hates to see Volcanis acting like a sort of jerk and she wants to beat him Razz

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Re: New tribe leader system - Female/Male Leaders and Advisors. Gods shouldn't abuse their power.

Post by Guest on Fri Aug 01, 2014 7:44 am

And what if you lose the position of leader? I think it would be unfair to keep semi-god powers even though you weren't leader.

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Re: New tribe leader system - Female/Male Leaders and Advisors. Gods shouldn't abuse their power.

Post by Atlantis on Fri Aug 01, 2014 7:57 am

Trinyah wrote:And what if you lose the position of leader? I think it would be unfair to keep semi-god powers even though you weren't leader.

Tribe leaders don't have gods powers anymore. This change will give equality to all the users, that need to freely manifest the personalities of their dragons.

People that have already semi-god powers, they can keep of course their powers. The powers strenght will simply be tuned down to match the strenght of any other dragon.

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Re: New tribe leader system - Female/Male Leaders and Advisors. Gods shouldn't abuse their power.

Post by Corrode on Fri Aug 01, 2014 9:17 am

Allow me to put my two cents here:

Personally, I think the old system works best. I've never really encountered a situation where my character's personality has been compromised by an executive decision, and I don't think it's really possible for that to happen. If it's in your character's personality to be disloyal, then you can totally not do what the leader tells you to. It is assumed you would accept the consequences.

Leaders aren't really Semi-Gods, either. They're more or less exemplars of their Kingdom. It makes sense that they're more powerful than their lesser counterparts.

A more democratic system with Advisors and Dukes/Duchesses will only help to destabilize Kingdoms, and might even help promote tyrannies. Under that system, what's stopping a leader from buying or manipulating his/her way into controlling the Advisors or Dukes/Duchesses?

Alternatively, what would stop the Advisors from just voting off the Leader and planting a puppet of their own?

I do agree that Leader powers need to be cut down just a little bit, but on a case-by-case basis. But we need to remember that Leaders have personalities of their own, and the way they exercise their powers is just an extension of that.

Also, as a side note, Gods are Gods for a reason. If you cut them down to someone who only gives opinions, it kind of defeats the purpose of being a God
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Re: New tribe leader system - Female/Male Leaders and Advisors. Gods shouldn't abuse their power.

Post by Guest on Fri Aug 01, 2014 9:32 am

By the way, Corrode. As for the semi god thing, Phantom HAS mentioned that the leaders are indeed semi-gods, incase you didn't notice. Not trying to be rude or anything, just wanting to make sure you knew. Razz What Atlas is suggesting is bumping it down so they aren't semi gods anymore.

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Re: New tribe leader system - Female/Male Leaders and Advisors. Gods shouldn't abuse their power.

Post by Corrode on Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:10 am

Oh, I didn't know they were officially Semi-Gods. That decision must've been made while I was absent. Anyways, my argument in support of the old system still stands, but in regards to the reduction of Leader power, they should still have some kind of power over the dragons under their charge. Without this extra power, their authority is essentially baseless.
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Re: New tribe leader system - Female/Male Leaders and Advisors. Gods shouldn't abuse their power.

Post by Atlantis on Fri Aug 01, 2014 10:57 am

To answer Corrode

There're a lot of interesting situations that can happen. A character that is disloyal towards a tribe leader I think it should have a chance to represent a menace or a possible competitor. What I think it's not equal, is that a tribe leader is able to "shut up" a member because the leader could kill it with the help of extra powers. I understand tribe leaders needs to keep their position, but there's the risk to suffucate the personalities of others characters.

A dragon that is disloyal towards the tribe leader, would gain the aversion of the tribe for example. Or a tribe member could intervene to protect the leader. In other words, if the leader is very good, you can expect that it will not lose its rank.

The actualy system is indeed tyrannical, because the same tribe leaders can permanently keep their position due to their immense strenght and powers. So there is no improvement at all because we're stuck with the same characters.

I think it's good that tribe leaders can be changed and challenged. We have different people and we don't have anymore the risk to have inactive or bad leaders.

I'm also suggesting to have a male leader AND a female leader for every tribe. So power isn't anymore in the hand of one person, but two. It's a step forward.

Advisors are the ones that simply help and suggest the leaders, trying to understand the needs of the tribe. The leaders can carefully choose them, and tribe members can help.

I'm looking for simply equality. A tribe leader, if it's really good, there's no risk that it will lose its position.

The way it is now, with the power all in the hands of the tribe leader, is dictactorial. I understand tribe leaders want to keep their position. That's obvious and they have their right to exercise their powership.

However, as I have said, if a tribe leader is really one of best around possible, it's hard it will lose its rank. They'll find the support of tribe members, and even the respect from other tribes.

We ask of course fair play and respect. There will be always situation of bad people that team up with the purpose to dethrone a good leader. If that would unluckily happen, other tribes can manifest their opposition and push to have the original leader back, denouncing the fact.

There're can't be fair play if people are allowed to power up their characters to not lose their leader roles. Tribe leaders should have the same strenght of any other dragons.

Gods simply shouldn't take decisions for everyone or use their powers to stop events that can turn into great adventures. If a big thing is going to happen, the userbase should be informed first to see their opinion.


Last edited by Atlantis on Sun Aug 03, 2014 4:35 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: New tribe leader system - Female/Male Leaders and Advisors. Gods shouldn't abuse their power.

Post by Akreious on Fri Aug 01, 2014 11:13 am

I generally don't care but I would like to see this concept evolve and see where this goes

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Re: New tribe leader system - Female/Male Leaders and Advisors. Gods shouldn't abuse their power.

Post by Atlantis on Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:17 pm

Akreious wrote:I generally don't care but I would like to see this concept evolve and  see where this goes

There're some things to discuss. I think the concept of the boss that can exercise its leadership with the aid of extra-powers is outdated.

The concept of boss can work if we assume ALL the dragons of a tribe have the same personality and they're almost identical. So the leader will be the strongest element.

However we're roleplaying, and dragons personalities are different from each other. Let's do a example: the FireWings have four elements:

1. Shadowfire
2. Avian
3. Volcanis
4. Xylnthian

If we suppose all the four dragons have the same identical personality, Shadowfire can be the leader by "superior strenght" . However it isn't the case of the FireWings. All the four tribe members have totally different personalities from each other. So it isn't fair that ShadowFire can exercise his leadership by "strenght". Every member should have a equal chance to conquer the throne.

I don't look for fixed roles, but for dynamic ones. Every tribe member should have his chance to become a tribe leader. I agree this would risk to lead to a bit of chaos. However It's important to be self-critical and accept the fact that someone else would be a better tribe leader. The roleplaying skills are one of the parameters to determine if someone would be a better tribe-leader. Another parameter is how much active that character is (in the roleplays). A third parameter is if the character's personality can fit the leader role.




Another thing to discuss, is which parameters we should use to declar the winner of a throne-challenge.  Both contendents want to win, of course. The problem is that we're roleplaying, so the challengers can easily write "dodged the attack". So there will be never a winner.

I think the fight would last a fixed number of turns and a discussion topic will be opened for a votation. Here people can discuss who has proved to be best fighter, valuing the roleplaying skills: abilities, fair play, ideas, description of feelings and emotions,  and so on. It's very important to be honest and objective, accurately describing the reasons why a competitor was better than the other.

This is a idea.



Advisor are indeed a very exclusive rank and they must be carefully choosen. be. Their task is to assist king/queens, and talk with tribe members (with a poll, for example)

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Re: New tribe leader system - Female/Male Leaders and Advisors. Gods shouldn't abuse their power.

Post by Akreious on Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:18 pm

Hmm. Seems legit

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Re: New tribe leader system - Female/Male Leaders and Advisors. Gods shouldn't abuse their power.

Post by Guest on Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:22 pm

Indeed Arcke. Indeed....

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Re: New tribe leader system - Female/Male Leaders and Advisors. Gods shouldn't abuse their power.

Post by Akreious on Fri Aug 01, 2014 12:23 pm

Please insert why this post is stupid here


Here: :L

Just Kidding this concept is indeed interesting

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Re: New tribe leader system - Female/Male Leaders and Advisors. Gods shouldn't abuse their power.

Post by Sleenia on Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:51 pm

I think this argument is very interesting and exciting!!
we can talk about it and maybe lets see how different things would work Razz

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Re: New tribe leader system - Female/Male Leaders and Advisors. Gods shouldn't abuse their power.

Post by Akreious on Fri Aug 01, 2014 1:52 pm

Sure :/

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Re: New tribe leader system - Female/Male Leaders and Advisors. Gods shouldn't abuse their power.

Post by Frostflare on Fri Aug 01, 2014 2:58 pm

I love the idea, but the Icewings have no active males. How would that work?

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Re: New tribe leader system - Female/Male Leaders and Advisors. Gods shouldn't abuse their power.

Post by Akreious on Fri Aug 01, 2014 2:59 pm

then leave icewings be!

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Re: New tribe leader system - Female/Male Leaders and Advisors. Gods shouldn't abuse their power.

Post by Frostflare on Fri Aug 01, 2014 3:01 pm

Would there just be two queens?

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Re: New tribe leader system - Female/Male Leaders and Advisors. Gods shouldn't abuse their power.

Post by Volcanis on Fri Aug 01, 2014 3:36 pm

@Frost: the IceWings will have only the Queen for now.

You'll have to wait for a male IceWing that would take the role of King Razz

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Re: New tribe leader system - Female/Male Leaders and Advisors. Gods shouldn't abuse their power.

Post by Akreious on Fri Aug 01, 2014 3:48 pm

that lucky bastard :/

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Re: New tribe leader system - Female/Male Leaders and Advisors. Gods shouldn't abuse their power.

Post by Atlantis on Fri Aug 01, 2014 5:22 pm

What do the admins think about my ideas?

Do you like to have a male leader AND a female leader for every tribe?

Also, what is your opinion about having "Advisors" to replace the Lieutenant?

And do you feel that tribe leaders could be challenged and beaten for the throne, though there must be very good reasons behind a throne challenge?

To others: feel free to post your opinions ^^ So we can try to find new and better ideas.


Last edited by Atlantis on Sun Aug 03, 2014 4:37 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: New tribe leader system - Female/Male Leaders and Advisors. Gods shouldn't abuse their power.

Post by Shyann on Fri Aug 01, 2014 6:01 pm

Atlas, I think that it is a good idea! It would be nice to have a king and a queen to help each other rule. I also like the idea of advisors.

*Shyann calls out "Phantom or Kazumi! Hurry up and take a look at this!"* Lol Razz

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My Other Charries: Oceana, Nightstar, Darkshade, Inferno, SnowFall, VenomTail, Azlvetta, and Aisha
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Re: New tribe leader system - Female/Male Leaders and Advisors. Gods shouldn't abuse their power.

Post by Phantom on Fri Aug 01, 2014 6:06 pm

Atlas, you are amazing at coming up with ideas Razz


Sure, Adviser could replace Lieutenant. Then that means someone could just challenge the King/Queen and stuff.

But I personally think that there shouldn't be too many Advisers or the tribe is just going to be overun. How about 2 advisers in each tribe?

And I like the idea of having a male and female leader.
But we still DO need healers. And Vulcans. And the other ranks.


Btdubs, Akre, no cussing La La La La! I'm young. I don't like cussing. We've got young members on this site.

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Re: New tribe leader system - Female/Male Leaders and Advisors. Gods shouldn't abuse their power.

Post by Guest on Fri Aug 01, 2014 6:08 pm

And the idea with bumping down the semi god to regular dragon, Phan? o3o

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Re: New tribe leader system - Female/Male Leaders and Advisors. Gods shouldn't abuse their power.

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